Question
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rainxbows
26 nov 2014

  • Inglese (Stati Uniti)
  • Giapponese
Domande Giapponese

Qual è la differenza tra 出れない e 出られない ?Sentiti libero di rispondere con un esempio.

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derongu
26 nov 2014

  • Inglese (Stati Uniti)

出れない is just a simplified/informal version of 出られない。it's not technically grammatically correct, but people still use it informally.

sunlight
26 nov 2014

  • Ebraico

出られない is the standard form, the one considered to be correct usage.

出れない is an example of what's called ら抜き言葉 (ら-dropping words), where the ら is dropped from the potential conjugation pattern of ichidan verbs (ichidan verbs = 一段動詞 = such as 見る, 食べる, etc.) These ら-dropping conjugations are used all the time in casual speech and even in casual writing such as online message boards, but for anything else the standard form is the way to go.

By the way, even though in ichidan verbs the potential conjugation and the passive conjugation are identical, ら-dropping only occurs in the potential context. The reason is probably that this form developed in imitation of the potential form of godan verbs (such as 飲む), where the final sound changes to [e] and a る is attached to it. Since 飲む becomes 飲める, by analogy, 出る becomes 出れる - both types of verbs are treat identically even though it's considered grammatically incorrect. So when you have a passive sense, the ら stays even in casual speech.

midoh
26 nov 2014

  • Giapponese

They are identical in meaning. 出れない is more casual than 出られない.

shuneguchi
26 nov 2014

  • Giapponese

「出れない」は「出られない」の”ら抜き言葉” といって誤った日本語です。
なので日本語に厳しい人(国語の先生とか雑誌の編集者とか) が聞くと直されるかもしれません。

その証拠に新聞や雑誌、ニュースなどフォーマルな場所ではら抜き言葉は使われません。

。。。が、あまりに一般的に広まってしまっているため、unotty さんがおっしゃるようにどちらも同じ意味で同じ使い方が可能です。

wpc
26 nov 2014

  • Giapponese

完全に忘れてました。勉強になります。

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rainxbows
26 nov 2014

  • Inglese (Stati Uniti)
@sunlight

Sorry but what is the passive sense?
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sunlight
26 nov 2014

  • Ebraico

Not sure my Japanese sentences will be totally natural, but for the purpose of explanation, here goes.

The passive sense is like 食べられた in:
あのりんごはね、猫に食べられたの。 --> Oh, that apple? It was eaten by the cat.

The potential sense is like 食べられた (and also 信じられない) in:
猫がりんごを食べられたなんて、信じられない。 --> The idea that the cat could eat the apple -- that's not something I can believe.

In the second example, the verb can be expressed as 食べれた. This can't happen in the first example, as far as I know.

rainxbows
26 nov 2014

  • Inglese (Stati Uniti)
Thank you ! And thank you others !
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