It would be rude to German but I'm so curious . I know Hakenkreuz is banned all over the world including Germany. But why German Military uses Iron Cross until now? I think it could give unpleasant to Poland or other Europe countries.

Question

coco21125 · Answer

Iron cross is much older than Nazi,  I guess. It is not unforgivable to raise war because every country did that in the history, but Nazi is unforgivable. 
   
It's kind of like Mitsubishi is still doing business around even after what they did in Hashima...  😂

Utente eliminato · Answer

Its not rude, its just a question.

Hakenkreuz isn't banned, its just banned here in Germany. In many other countries its completely legal to show and use it.
The Iron Cross dates back to the fights against Napoleon in 1813. So its way older and its supports the continuity the FRG claims as the direct successor of the German Kaiserreich. So other than the Hakenkreuz there is a legitimate tradition of usage and its not necessarily the symbol of the Regime 1933-45.

coco21125 · Answer

Yes, Hakenkreuz is not banned in Taiwan,  unless a Israeli sees it. If they protest to our government or media,  the person carrying Hakenkreuz will be criticized by the whole society, and facing serious consequences . 
Last year some high school students dressed themselves up like this :
http://gunfreezone.net/index.php/2017/08/25/how-to-confuse-antifa-even-more/
  
Our president, minister of education, principal and school director of the school, and the students and their teacher  had to apologize to Israel Office in Taipei.  (kinda like Embassy,  but we don't have Embassy  😓) 
Some people urged the school to dismiss  those students, but it didn't. 
Eventually,  the principal quit his job and the high school's budget was reduced 2 million Taiwanese dollar (67 thousand USD) a year . 
    
But there's another group carrying Hakenkreuz and posting it on Facebook and was not blamed. (I'm not sure if they were ever seen by Israel ) 
They are called the German Old Mark Association.
 They claim that they bought German bonds in old Mark from Japanese government (before ww2), but didn't get paid. They want Japanese government to give their  money back.  😂😂😂 
  
We have lots of stupid people who likes to draw attention with taboo signs  😓

Utente eliminato · Answer

@coco21125 yeah, its totally stupid and I assume many of these students didn't even know what exactly Nazi Germany was and whose symbols they were carrying. Sad.

kerstin28 · Answer

It's also banned here in Austria. As many people don't know, Hitler was austrian (not proud, but it's true)

dubuship · Answer

You also can buy Hakenkreuz flag in S korea. 
I have it and it is not illigal thing.

dubuship · Answer

And you also can study and believe about national socialism in S Korea.
There is some web site of national socialism in korea. 
You also can said Sieg heil, heil hitler, Ich mag hitler führer, in S korea.

It just banned in deutschland.

dubuship · Answer

@HongAhan 밀리터리 샵 가보세요 하켄크로이츠 뿐만아니라 남부국기, 2제국기 등 여러개 팔고있어요

Utente eliminato · Answer

@naraons of course you can do that. but its still bullshit.

kerstin28 · Answer

The law against it in Austria is veeeery strict. If you want to lend a book about Hitler or something related to him you have to have a good reason. Like being a history teacher or something like that.
You are also not allowed to have pictures of Hitler hung up in your house. If you yell 'heil hitler' in public you could be arrested or at least pay a fee. They can also arrest you when you have a Hakenkreuz as a Tattoo.

Utente eliminato · Answer

@HongAhan Yes, we are educated about this. For example, almost every student visits a concentration camp during his/her time in school.
I personally know about the Unit 731 but I think its nothing the average german knows about in this specific way. Many of us may know about the crimes committed by the Japanese but we are mostly educated about European history and rather not asian history. At least If you're not taking history advanced courses in schoold as I did.

afflick · Answer

The swastika (as a character 卐 or 卍) is an ancient religious icon used in the Indian subcontinent, East Asia and Southeast Asia, where it has been and remains a sacred symbol of spiritual principles in Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism. In the Western world, it was historically a symbol of auspiciousness and good luck, but in the 1930s, it became the main feature of Nazi symbolism as an emblem of Aryan race identity, and as a result, it has become stigmatized in the West by association with ideas of racism, hatred, and mass murder.

coco21125 · Answer

卍 is only bad if it's black character with white and red background. 
  
In Taiwan we have lots of temples and Buddhism products (flags,  clothings,   tables, bracelets....) with red  卍 and yellow  background. It means Buddha and it's ok. 
Gosh Hitler made the world so complicated... 😂😂😂😂

ChronicProcrastinato · Answer

Swastika is the voting symbol in my country.😄

Anwesh · Answer

Swastika can be seen in a lot of temples. No body thinks of Hitler when they see a Swastika in India (except for some wannabes).

sonu2452 · Answer

swastika u know india is religious country &lot of temple very attractive.something a good fillings

abdallahzainalov84 · Answer

whot is he talking abowt

kerstin28 · Answer

My teacher once got arrested bc he got a letter from his family from india and the police thought they are Nazis bc there was a Hakenkreuz on the envelope

abdallahzainalov84 · Answer

help mi i did'n anderstent

kerstin28 · Answer

@abdallahzainalov84 what do you want to know?

Maksnyuk · Answer

It was symbol of the sun of slavs

olswin · Answer

I don’t know if anyone has already said that, but Swastika was originally a Slavic symbol for the sun. Years and years ago

coco21125 · Answer

@kerstin28 this is absurd!😯

kerstin28 · Answer

@coco21125 They just checked everything and as soon as they saw that he's not a Nazi he was free to go (as I said the law about this topic is strict)

coco21125 · Answer

Poor Buddhist,  they have nothing to do with this  😂😂😂

kerstin28 · Answer

@coco21125 True😂😂 in general most of the people had nothing to do with Hitler but still law is law

ymini · Answer

@dlobok Here too. It 's legal, but it' s bad.

cjareck · Answer

I'm from Poland and surely don't find Iron Cross insulting. My grandfather fought in Great War and received for this. Iron Cross is Prussian comes from war against Napoleon in 1813. Later it was renewed for 1870-71 and 1914-18 wars. Nazis used it in 1939-1945 as their award but in my opinion that doesn't matter tat much. It is a classical Prussian/German war medal for me.

youtubrttd · Answer

sfastica means lucky

mieszkoT · Answer

@olswin originally swastika came from asia. it's a symbol of luck

olswin · Answer

@mieszkoT this is really interesting. Thank you

larsvoorden2002 · Answer

here in the Netherlands it is a sign of Nazi-Germany and usually associated with the second world war. It is not rude, but more like a taboo.

Ghery · Answer

I find this topic really interesting ! I have a question too ! I'm fond of Germanic history and well history and military medals in general. Someone offered me a necklace representing the Iron cross and I really treasure it. But if on one side it's the 1813's version on the other side it's the 1939's one with the Hakenkreuz. So I dunno if I can wear it >< what do you guys think ?

kayleigh76 · Answer

The "Iron Cross" was not originally an invention of the Nazis.  The Cross itself is the Symbol of the "Deutscher Orden" which was founded 1190. (German Order, Teutonic Order, Teutonic Knights)
The medal "Eisernes Kreuz" was first used by the Prussians more than 100 years before Nazi Germany. 
The Bundeswehr uses the cross as a sign for its aircrafts. The official flag of the Bundeswehr is black-red-gold with the heraldic eagle in the middle.

Nolra · Answer

@Ghery as far as I know, the iron cross is a symbol for humbleness and, as already mentioned, a very ancient military medal.
I don't know where you wanna wear it, but let's assume the reactions in the German public now.
 I, as a German and a history enthusiast, wouldn't really have a problem with the early iron cross since I know the actual background of the symbol and I'd be happy to see that people from my wonderful neighbour country are interested in German History :) Still many people would probably see it critically since basically everything connected with military is seen critically in Germany due to Hitler.
With the Swatiska... that's another thing. It represents a very specific, very dark passage of German history and also kinda reduces it to that. Also, as a German, I experience a lot of stigmatising from people from other countries who try to blame me or make me feel bad for WW2. If I saw you wearing a Swatiska I would think you're a Nazi, and therefore unpleasant company, or, after finding out you're not German, I would think that you too are one of those people who only connect Hitler with Germany and nothing else.

So if I were you- If you really want to wear that necklace in the German public, I recommend erasing the Swatiska somehow, maybe taping something over it. Because you will be either insulted or stigmatized for it, which I don't think will be a pleasant experience. Plus you would make people feel uncomfortable. 
The iron cross side however could be a reason for a great discussion with another either military or history nerd, since no one else in Germany really knows anything about that symbol...

But I think you should maybe tape up the Swatiska in the whole Western World, unless of course, you identify with the movement behind it.

Hope, I could help you!

Swedrick · Answer

It's banned here in Sweden too

Ghery · Answer

@Nolra Thanks for your answer ! I want to wear it to the 1813 side of course ! I really don't identify to the movement behind it. I just see it as an interesting part of history (I don't want to be rude but it's what I think like... It's a huge history period and I love learning things about it. but maybe the word interesting doesn't fit ? I really don't know). I may try to put a tape on the Swastika then ! Since I'm young and the necklace was in a random store (plus it was the "bad side") I thought there was no problems wearing it but then I goy told it was bad. Thank for your answer :) I'm happy to have a constructive talk on it. My father just yelled at me almost calling me a nazi I just had no clue >~<. Really thank you ^^. I'm still a bit scared to wear it though ! Maybe I'm just gonna treasure it at home xP.

cjareck · Answer

@Ghery Problem is that the 1813 side is a rear side. Better look for the Great War version. It has 1914 and W (for Wilhelm) in the front and 1813 in the back. Swastika is nowhere to be found.

Ghery · Answer

@cjareck I see '^' thank you ^^

hollandronan · Answer

Thanks guys, I learnt a bit from this thread.

cjareck · Answer

More about Iron Cross not being unpleasant to Poles. Here you have Ludomił Rayski in Polish uniform. Look at the black-white ribbon under the second button. It is a common way oc wearing ribbon of Inron Cross 2nd Class. He has nothing against wearing it even in Polish uniform. Only later, as he was general, he is without it on the photos.

Nolra · Answer

@Ghery Maybe your father overreacted a bit but you also have to keep in mind that the Nazis and the French Police commited also in France horrible crimes... so I can understand he may be sensitive with that topic...

I think there's nothing wrong in people finding that period of time interesting, as long, as they try to differenciate. 
No- not all Germans were Nazis and racist. No, not even all soldiers were Nazis and racist.  
I think what's really interesting about that time period is how it actually came to WW2. You have to start right from 1871, the beginning of the German empire then and see, how the meaning of the word "nationalism", which first simply described the wish to build a nation, changed to the modern definition of "nationalism", which is the egoistic believe that your country is superior to others. (This was a common believe in most European countries at that time.)
Poland's and Germany's inhabitants were first best friends, can you believe that? 
And then you have to continue to WW1, the Versailles Treaty, etc. I think only then one is able to truly understand the events back then...

Anyways, maybe it really is better if you just keep your necklace at home... You can't expect all people to be experts in history and I think you really might get judged because if it ^^"

Marnie_scarlett · Answer

I know that it used to be associated with India but during WW2 Hilter started to use it. Please forgive me if I’m incorrect and I offend anyone with he information I provided

Ghery · Answer

@Nolra That's true, but in my school there are a lot of comics on it and nowaday there is a lot of dark humor on it so I didn't really think about it being really offensive. I surely was a bit careless ^^'

Yes in history class we studied all of this ! Well except the beginning of the German Empire in 1871. We mostly see things from French point of view and were briefly taught about France losing the Alsace-Moselle in 1870 and that it led to conflictuous relation leading (in part) to WW1.

I didn't know Germany and Poland were that close 'O' ! I'm glad I learned something !

Yes that's what I'm going to do >○< Thank you !

cjareck · Answer

@Marnie_scarlett You have right, but Hitler simply used it because it was always used when Prussia went to war. 1813, 1870, 1914, 1939. It was renewed each time with the date and first letter of the Prussian King's name. Since in 1939 Prussia had no king,the swastika has been used.

kennydoradora · Answer

hello

Flame23 · Answer

Lol how is that even supposed to be rude for asking or unpleasant for poles xd

maryisacupacke · Answer

@Ghery I would avoid showing it publically since it is a taboo in all german speaking countries that I know and widely associated with Hitler, WW2 and a lot of pain. If the necklace means a lot to you maybe jeep it hidden underneath clothing but I would be very careful

taetreteiro · Answer

Just if someone want to know, here in Brazil the Hakenkreuz is also banned

The Iron Cross is a military honor, but in Brazil was changed for Southern Cruise.

Here in Brazil, you can go to jail for use, have, transport, show or make the Hakenkreuz.

gogolog · Answer

@HongAhan@HongAhan I think Iron Cross cannot be linked to nazi regime. 100 years later...

apabirriel · Answer

The Iron Cross goes back long before the nazis, and the swastika is not forbidden all over the world

rjennings333 · Answer

There’s an ad for hoes on here. The app is “Live Me”

rjennings333 · Answer

The swastika dates back to 12,000 BC. That is oldest one that was found in the Ukraine

Jillyuhn · Answer

It may be an offensive symbol now due to how many casualties, but before Nazism grew extreme power, These symbols were used to show great power- not a hate symbol at all! (Some may find it extremely offensive) but it is banned in Germany and Austria for what I have learned here! Hope this helps xx

Utente eliminato · Answer

It's an ancient symbol predating ww2. Stigmatizing it or the people who display it is just ridiculous.

This happened almost a century ago; It was a different world, a different society, and a different set of people who have long since passed.

Apologizing to Jews or even Isreal is a ridiculous notion.

kennydoradora · Answer

hello how

PolskiePan · Answer

It was used in thr roman empire

Utente eliminato · Answer

@HCamilo

If you're going to troll, please be more creative.

kennydoradora · Answer

hello

kennydoradora · Answer

hi

say-ieng · Answer

oh.yy

vinyciusazevedo · Answer

The Harenkreuz is completely banned here in Brazil. The punishment for people only using something that contains anything containing Harenkreuz is detention for up to 5 years

Utente eliminato · Answer

@vinyciusazevedo

That's reprehensible.

m8mate · Answer

I guess it wasn’t bad then but now ppl only know it at the nazi death emblem so...

Utente eliminato · Answer

@m8mate

So... so what?

m8mate · Answer

@HCamilo  ARE YOU DUMB???? YOU KNOW THAT HE CAUSED THE HOLOCAUST!!!! HE CAUSED THE MILLIONS OF JEWS OF INNOCENT JEWS TO DIE!!!! LIKE ARE YOU AUTISTIC

m8mate · Answer

@LaughingJack it probably was used before the Holocaust but you will have to look that up

Utente eliminato · Answer

@m8mate

I have.

CamiVT · Answer

@m8mate Many things are said against Hitler , but not all are true

m8mate · Answer

@HCamilo but most are

CamiVT · Answer

@m8mate Maybe, Even so , I have my own opinion on this matter

m8mate · Answer

@HCamilo I would say he was a great leader bc his charisma but that is about it bc he lead a whole country but he used it for bad so that is why I wouldn’t even say anything

Shaduum · Answer

@kerstin28  a lil bit crazy but a great man anyway. i dont like the aryan massive bullshit. but i admire the feats he maked for germany. a man who changed the world. a man who started a fucking era. the mofucking   
Adolf Hitler.

Shaduum · Answer

@m8mate ma friend. your country win the war mkay? dont desecrate the honor of the third reich and the wehrmacht more. you belong to a country who tiranized the entire fucking world. u dont have morals to criticize the Reich.

Shaduum · Answer

@vinyciusazevedo really?? Geez. i dont know that until now....

Shaduum · Answer

@HCamilo well said mate

m8mate · Answer

@Shaduum bruh who said that I’m even from the USA??? I never said I was from usa that is just where I live. I’m from Germany and I want to practice my English more so that is why I i have that on my profile now as for this, I do get to put my opinion out there bc I’m from the freaking place

Shaduum · Answer

@taetreteiro im Br but it is so Dumb. why da fuck they care? damn hell

m8mate · Answer

@HCamilo I’m about to slap you through this phone. The hatred towards the Jews was not won, the war was blamed on them but they weren’t the cause. It’s just like hatred towards gays, they did nothing wrong but for some reason it’s there, learn your facts before you open your mouth again

Shaduum · Answer

@m8mate u dont have to be shamed about being German or about the past.  
your people fighted bravely to conquest the europe and give your people better lives. be honored to be part of such Brave race. in your veins the viking blood runs. dont act like a coward or shamed german. me and much others envy your bloodline. believe me. much others.

m8mate · Answer

Who said I was shamed about being German?? You are literally putting words in my mouth, I love being German, I’m just mad because that one person said he thought hurler was a great leader that is the only part I am mad bout and now I’m getting mad at you because you are putting words in my mouth because I said one thing to it the other, I said nothing about how being German was shameful

m8mate · Answer

Plus who said hurler was chosen? He used his charisma to “win the hearts” or the condition thes Germans mind to think a certain way by promising them good thing

m8mate · Answer

@Shaduum so make sure what you want to say is correct before you actually do so I don’t have to swoop in eberytime and correct you myself

Shaduum · Answer

@m8mate hey man keep cool. i sayed all that because the germans i know feel shame. like the government of yours who legalized the gay marriage because of feeling fault and blame. if i Wrong. forgive me, but it is what i see.

Utente eliminato · Answer

... My question to the lot of you is how many of you truly researched WW2 history?

First of all, what triggered the second world war was an argument over how many telegraph polls Germany owed their war department creditors.

Secondly, communism was expanding from Russia and eastern Europe rapidly. The hatred of the jews began due to the socially destabilizing upheaval the communist Jews created. With the financial damages resulting from WW1, the communists had a keen interest in taking over, buying out, replacing, and re-establishing new currency.

Check it.

Shaduum · Answer

@m8mate uhmmm. the bankers jews in germany have some lil fault about This. but not enough to flip that fucking world table.

CamiVT · Answer

Some people say that Jews hate other races think themselves superior and believe that the world belongs to them

Shaduum · Answer

@LaughingJack uhmmm. so again communism fucked something and all fault go to the nazi-fasci countries. unbelievable.

Shaduum · Answer

@HCamilo its all about religion in the end. sorry jews. but i think u kinda searched for it......the crusades.....dont accepting your "Christ".... yeah.....i think you fucked yourselves up.

m8mate · Answer

The war was caused by the war before being blamed on the Jews and the nazis killing them, so basically every other country had to swoop to save the fucking Jews y’all can fight me on this

m8mate · Answer

@Shaduum yes there are other religions, yes other religions beliefs are not accepted by others, yes the crusades cause most of that racism towards Jews they did not fuck themselves over they are just believing in what they what just like how you believe you can say something that is totally wrong and think it’s right

Shaduum · Answer

@m8mate  whaaaaa??? you dont maked any sense right now.... whadumean?

m8mate · Answer

@Shaduum I can tell you don’t speak English, if you did then you would know what I’m saying, why don’t you got learn English then come back and try to say something and not use google translate

Shaduum · Answer

@m8mate u dont have the eternal truth. dont be so arrogant. u are so full of yourself. keep it down. what i say is not the right. what i say and what i believe is right are 2 diferent things. we are discussing ideas not preaching for the masses.  
gimme respect and i give it back gladly. but dont be a rich bitch with me or i will send u to hell fast.

CamiVT · Answer

@Shaduum At all times I have written with respect , respect all races and cultures , but I do not have to comments as everyone , we can discuss and talk about almost everything and with respect

Shaduum · Answer

@HCamilo of course mate. always wanting to talk with someone smart enough to accept being disagreed with...

m8mate · Answer

@Shaduum ok for one how old are you bc obviously don’t know anything plus who the fuck are you calling a rich bitch you live in a place that is damn expensive I live in a place that is poor so you add the math and I’m not being arrogant I’m just stating what you don’t know

m8mate · Answer

@Shaduum plus you can believe what you want I’m just stating facts I don’t care about what you think I’m just simply stating facts so you can learn some

Shaduum · Answer

@m8mate oh yeah? u go to USA from German and u are sooooo poooor....... mate dont fuck with me.... i have 18 years but i already fighted in the trenches of life..... dont fuck with me...

Shaduum · Answer

@m8mate allways full of shit. i dont believe anything. i doubt all and search for knowledge to understand the life.... but u? u want to teach me something even you dont full understand.

m8mate · Answer

@Shaduum  oi mate I am German not from Germany I just said that to get my point across, bc if I was from Germany or not I am still right

m8mate · Answer

@Shaduum we started learning this shit in first grade we still learn about it in highschool and just because you are older doesn’t mean you are right and I’m full of facts not shit you are the one full of shit

Shaduum · Answer

@m8mate  what i said? u are already doutrinated by the "hero" USA. your right is not my right. you act like a kid full of shit said by parents. u dont even are full german. u dont deserve your bloodline. da hell is happening with the world.

Shaduum · Answer

@m8mate right. lil girl. keep mumbling. oh, mommy is calling......time for the night milk. go on right teller. go learn more "truth" for your titty milf mamma.

m8mate · Answer

@Shaduum who said I’m not full German, my parents could be from germany, don’t jump to conclusions, I’m not full of shit I’m just stating facts that you obviously don’t know so you can learn

m8mate · Answer

@Shaduum did you just insult my mom, NO ONE FUCKIN INSULTS MY MOTHER I DONT LEARN FROM MY MOM I LEARN FROM FUCKIN SCHOOL WHICH OBVIOUSLY YOU NEED TO GO TO

m8mate · Answer

@Shaduum plus what the fuck is night milk unlike you ppl we don’t have that in anerica

m8mate · Answer

America**

m8mate · Answer

@Shaduum actually that’s not an insult bc yeah my mom is hot I’m glad you agree

Shaduum · Answer

@m8mate lil girl u are so confusing..... u said u dont are german from germany. are u so dumb? how the fuck u are full german If u dont are born in germany? lol

m8mate · Answer

@Shaduum I’m considered American but I’m German just because I was born in America doesn’t mean that I’m not full german

m8mate · Answer

I can be somethng but born/raised in a different society

m8mate · Answer

Maybe if you were smart enough which based on your age you should be, you would know that

m8mate · Answer

I’m done with this you are impossible so just keep believing your wrong ass self I don’t care I was just trying to help

Shaduum · Answer

@m8mate  ok i assume i  are wrong  sometimes and i dont know all answers. i assume i are a dumbass who pursue knowledge. but you? will you assume are you being a preposterous princess of mommy? not? i know it. u dont want to learn new things. u want to doutrinate and preach others with your "perfect world" idealism. if u dont assume this, fine by me. i dont assume anything either. treat my up words like nothing.

m8mate · Answer

@Shaduum I love learning new things my world isn’t perfect why are you jumping to conclusions like this? Aren’t you taught not to jump to conclusions??

m8mate · Answer

@Shaduum oh correct me if I’m wrong but I’m pretty sure you were

Shaduum · Answer

@m8mate ok lil girl. i will stop saying something now. we live in diferent realitys anyway. i will be dumber than you if i keep trying to put something logic in your head. u dont assume your wrong and think u are always right. are so silly and is in someway cute. i dont have time to show you how to be a tiger in this fucked up world. so good luck with your "pure" ideology and way of thought.

Shaduum · Answer

and good night anyway....

m8mate · Answer

@Shaduum I don’t think I’m always right but I know I’m right on this

m8mate · Answer

Good night to u too

takuroh · Answer

@coco21125 Do you say about Korean FAKE movie? If so, you know too little of history.

vothuythuy1234 · Answer

op

Braddafil · Answer

Ha ha!! I'm having fun reading  some of the craziest historical theories ever .... Some of you need some serious meds (you know who you are ) !!! Anyway thanks for the craziness but don't forget that we're all here to share and learn with respect. 😎

coco21125 · Answer

@takuroh 
I noticed there are some contradictions in the Hashima movie released this year,  such as the Morinaga candy was Korean kid's daily treat,  but was so precious (worthy of 2 months expense of a family of 6 people with 2 man in military service )in  この世界の片隅に .
I would say the film maker didn't made much investigation into the real history,  but you have to face the victim's feelings. 
 I know no one who lived there,  and I'm looking forward to a more detailed, more realistic review and explanation of Hashima and many other things happened during that period of time. 
In  この世界の片隅に, I saw a lot of detailed records of how many times a day the city was bombed, and this level of evidence can surely win more trust. I believe you can make it. 
In Germany,  their government and school explains history and admit their faults, so their students can face the history. And when the students grow up, they are interested in the country's past  and they make more investigations. There are many exhibitions in Berlin about Nazi and ww2, and some with very good quality were funded by private communities. 
While in Tokyo, I visited 遊就館, and saw that they didn't even mentioned Weianbu once. Um....that is not explaining at all..... Does that mean Weianbu didn't happen ? Or you have no comment to China and Korea's statements ? (There won't be Taiwan's statement,  we just can't,  sad story..😢)
Your government should make an official full explanation for the past,  admit faults, and so the people has something to stand on. You have the ability  😉

Moses123 · Answer

In Arab countries you can buy Hitler's book "mein kampf" from libraries and you can rise the 'Hakenkreuz' where ever you want!

Noeko · Answer

In france it's totally forbidden, if you want to use it as an ideology of Nazism. But you can use it when it comes to history, art or religion.

lorenzohasproblems · Answer

kell iya ruhekenkalzer nein redeezster kreuz Hakenkreuz yutra polishtish braich y

Shaduum · Answer

@Braddafil crazy? Nah. none a bit.ok.... maybeeee. a lil bit. but i like to troll sometimes and learn some costumes about the other countries.  
im preparing myself to the ww3. the Fallout war...... hahaha

takuroh · Answer

Sorry everyone. I'm digressing.
@coco21125 
Thank you for your reply. You are right that Japanese government must make an official explantion. I agree with you.
However, to bigin with, you are mistaken. Maybe because lies are spreading.
First, there was no labour forced by Japanese government or Mitsubishi Industrial in Hashima. Most of them worked of thier own free will. It was hard and dangerous but highly paid. That's why. Some of them were brought by human traders.

Comfort women, so called weianbu too. Thay certainty existed but most of them applied and were Japanese. They were just prostitutes and got high pay.
There was not a abuse because women had the advantage and the liberty to refuse. The surveys by U.S. forces after WW2 showed these things.
And above all, do you really belive that 200,000 Korean women and girls were kidnapped? Korean people of the days do nothing? That's a bouncing lie. I don't believe that Korean were such cowards.
In fuct, the Asahi newspaper, Japanese media, made a false report and Korean government followed it.
Such people also existed while Vietnam war and Korean war.
Making use of a female is badness. It was the fault of Japan but not only Japan. That's an important problem all over the world.

Utente eliminato · Answer

@HCamilo  and the world needs less of your kind.

AydenML · Answer

@dlobok that sounds like something a nazi would say

Utente eliminato · Answer

@AydenML nope

coco21125 · Answer

@takuroh

I have to admit I really don't know much about Hashima, but I know many Weianbu were told that they were hired to be nurses or cooks. I said there won't be Taiwan's statement, but by that I mean our government can't ask Japan for money or raise international hatred. Our people can still talk about it and make exhibitions and protests. So I know there were girls with high school degree (very highly educated at that time) joining Weianbu, and not all are prostitutes. Of course it may be the human traders that lied to them, instead of Japanese government, but didn't they resist or cry or at least say no when men came to their beds ? After 50 years of Japanese governing I believe most of them could express " no" properly, and then what ? Did any soldier or officer report that they might have taken a wrong girl ? 
Also in the Korean movie 軍艦島 they spoke about women tricked to be Weianbu by Korean human traders. So it's not that fake. And didn't any coal miners brought by human traders show that they didn't want to be there ? Were they sent back home then? (The massacre at the end of movie is a bit over I think, because Japanese army were starting to release European Weianbu after they knew they couldn't win the war. It makes no sense to commit more crime. )
If you are going to defense ww2 you have to explain everything, not just accuse fake information from victims . (Don't forget there was no Korean or Taiwanese government at that time, we don't have responsibility to provide documents. Just victims speaking up can make a story.) And if you can't explain, you have to apologize. Ww2 is a whole package so defending for one topic at a time and avoid speaking about other topics is useless. Like this :( https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pFcTldugvsw&vl=ja )

Fake news can spread because there's no true official story. I don't know why Asahi has to spread fake news, but it can't be as powerful if Japanese government put true official story into education. People(maybe Asahi journalists, too) tend to listen to victims if no one can proof them wrong, but Japanese people can't speak up for themselves unless government teaches them how.
Now it seems that anyone trying to speak about Japan's responsibility in ww2 will be considered a traitor or enemy, while many of them in fact love the present Japan. It is because your people don't have confidence in what you know about the country's past, and are afraid that people will spread more negative views than you deserve.
  
 Learn from Germany, please. Their people know at least when to apologize and when to speak up to defend their country's pride. As you can see, no one is blaming iron cross here.  Mitsubishi also existed before ww2, but could have participated in or benefited from forced labor, just as many German men wearing iron cross participated in expanding Nazi's power zone, and many households benefited from the cheap products made in or collected from concentration camps. Mitsubishi could be guilty for something, but no one wants it to disappear or become a taboo.

coco21125 · Answer

@HongAhan 
I read 2ch from time to time so I know what the hell you mean  😂😂😂.
But that movie is just a little warm story about a housewife's life during wartime,  and was not defending for any crime or raising any hatred. Japanese (Empire ) government may have been wrong , but their people also suffered a lot, the movie was expressing their point of view.  However, I still considered it a right wing movie,  because when war was lost, the housewife was sad about they have to eat bread made from wheat grown in foreign land. It's kind of a weird complaint for ordinary people ...

hellochildren · Answer

@coco21125 "We have lots of stupid people who likes to draw attention with taboo signs  😓"

perhaps, but sound more like an overreaction as well, oy vey.

takuroh · Answer

@coco21125 
I'm afraid that's not the case. Your story based on the movie.
What I don't like about Korean films is that they're not grounded in reality.
To ask for money to Japan, thay want to leave it as Korean girls were compelled the work by the Japanese during the war.
My story based on the surveys by U.S. forces.
The following is a quotation from it.
According to the Japanese Prisoner of War Interrogation Report No. 49, which was reported by U.S in Aug 20 to Sept 10, 1944, 20 of Korean ladies were working as comfort women in Japanese camp during WW2. The "house master" that means manager of the comfort house, received 50 to 60% of the girls' gross earnings depending on how much of a debt each girl had incurred when she signed her contract. In other words, Korean ladies decided to get the job. In fact, they got a lot of money. Also, they amused themselves by participating in sports events with both officers and men, and attended picnics, entertainments, and social dinners. They had a phonograph and in the towns they were allowed to go shopping. The Ladies were allowed the prerogative of refusing a customer.

takuroh · Answer

@coco21125 
And a wife of the Asahi journalist who wrote the article is a Korean and her mother belong to confort woman organizations. I think that's why he posted the article.

coco21125 · Answer

I didn't say everything was true in the movie. I said it also mentioned human trading done by Koreans themselves,  so the movie was not that hostile and fake. It has flaws, but it's not made merely to harm Japan's reputation. 
   
It can't be about asking for money.  Look at the price,  who the fuck would care about such little money ? ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_Women%27s_Fund)  I believe they would pay ten times more if time could flow back and such thing didn't happen. 
    
It's not  done by Japanese army alone,  because human traders also participated in it. But what did Japanese army do when they see these girls crying ? Thought  they cried of joy because they received too much money ? 
   
There were many Japanese Weianbu,  too. And maybe there were real professional prostitutes and had a good time spending their salary and attending dinners during wartime, leaving the photos.  But also many women didn't want to be there, leaving the protests.  
70 years ago it was very important for a girl to be virgin.  It would be funny to claim all these women pretended to have  been Weianbu while they actually were not. There are more pretending not to have been,  but in fact were. 
    
http://www.exordio.com/1939-1945/codex/Documentos/report-49-USA-orig.html
Okay,  good report,  bad quotations. 
1. The report interviewed 20 Korean comfort girls, but 800 were recruited at the same time. 
2.  "Early in May of 1942 Japanese agents arrived in Korea for the purpose of enlisting Korean girls for "comfort service" in newly conquered Japanese territories in Southeast Asia. The nature of this "service" was not specified but it was assumed to be work connected with visiting the wounded in hospitals, rolling bandages, and generally making the soldiers happy. " 
Hmm...... generally making the soldiers happy..... Nice contract. 
3. "The majority of the girls were ignorant and uneducated, although a few had been connected with "oldest profession on earth" before. "
A few were prostitutes,  most were not.  They thought they would be rolling bandages. 
4. "The contract they signed bound them to Army regulations and to war for the "house master " for a period of from six months to a year depending on the family debt for which they were advanced "
"The "house master" received fifty to sixty per cent of the girls' gross earnings depending on how much of a debt each girl had incurred when she signed her contract. "
"In the latter part of 1943 the Army issued orders that certain girls who had paid their debt could return home. Some of the girls were thus allowed to return to Korea."
This seemed pretty much human trading to me. 🤔🤔  They were tricked to sign the contract by false working recruitment,  and were not free to leave unless they paid the debt. Also the money went to their family or human traders,  not themselves. Otherwise they could pay the money back immediately after they know what was going on and wouldn't have to stay for 1 year.
(Btw, was it legal to sell daughters back in 1940s in Japanese Empire ? If they were sold to a prostitute house,  then ok, it was an individual crime. Maybe the police was looking for them. But sold to army....? )
5. "The interrogations further show that the health of these girls was good. They were well supplied with all types of contraceptives, and often soldiers would bring their own which had been supplied by the army. They were well trained in looking after both themselves and customers in the matter of hygiene. A regular Japanese Army doctor visited the houses once a week and any girl found diseased was given treatment, secluded, and eventually sent to a hospital. "
Ok, this is a good defense against portrait of  " Hell-like environment  ", or that they got pregnant and had to go through abortion repeatedly being a common practice .

Utente eliminato · Answer

Guys. Movies are made to make money; They're stories.

No movie is going to be 100% accurate, especially when there's emotional appeals and embellishments to be made for the sake of sales.

If you're gonna want an accurate representation of any event, you're gonna have to do it the hard and boring way: interviews with diligent research and study.

Since most people don't have time for that, it's much easier to learn history from a movie screen complete with popcorn and the occassional blow job.

coco21125 · Answer

@LaughingJack 
Movies are not 100% true, but some  people feel wronged by the movie. Then they think this topic is not worthy to discuss because the whole thing was made up to blackmail them.

Utente eliminato · Answer

@coco21125

That's how THEY feel and that's THEIR problem. No one else's.

Life is full of things that make us uneasy and uncomfortable. That doesn't give others a right in the slightest to impose themselves on others over that fact.

coco21125 · Answer

Sorry,  I don't understand your last sentence.

Utente eliminato · Answer

@coco21125

In short, just because something makes you uncomfortable that doesn't mean you decide for others.

coco21125 · Answer

@LaughingJack 
About the movie talks: 
1. We started talking about movie because I mentioned forced labor in Hashima by Mitsubishi ,  and someone said there's a fake movie about it (Yeah,  so?). 
Then I said Japanese can definitely make a more truthful movie if they want. But of course it's even better to write it in textbook.

2. 
{Also in the Korean movie 軍艦島 they spoke about women tricked to be Weianbu by Korean human traders. So it's not that fake. And didn't any coal miners brought by human traders show that they didn't want to be there ? Were they sent back home then? (The massacre at the end of movie is a bit over I think, because Japanese army were starting to release European Weianbu after they knew they couldn't win the war. It makes no sense to commit more crime. )}
   
I wasn't citing the movie.  I said the movie had fake parts (the massacre was too obvious, the others I don't know and wish someone can explain which were true and which were false ). And I said the movie was not blaming everything on Japan, so there's no need to think of it as a hostile propaganda.

coco21125 · Answer

@LaughingJack 
for who and what have I decided for ?

Utente eliminato · Answer

@coco21125 You didn't.

I was speaking in regards to certain movies and the feelings in regards to certain events (historically, etc)

coco21125 · Answer

About Hashima forced labor: 
It's hard to find English citations,  but I found this and it's kind of interesting : 
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/sep/19/japan
{The Guardian : Aso Mining admitted it had employed 300 POWs - 101 British, 197 Australian and two Dutch - from May 1945 until the end of the war, but said they had received wages and been fairly treated.}
I believe they also came for the high wages, right ?  😉😉 The payment must have been so high that they would work for an enemy's company during wartime. 
   
http://www.jca.apc.org/hanaokajiken/070327nagasaki youshi.htm
This citation is in Japanese and I can only understand about 50 % of it(and takes time and effort, but I'm sleepy now 😑) . But I think this information has  the least possibility to be "fake" among all that I can find. It is a verdict made by Nagasaki local court. 
Just to quote the conclusion :
{三菱鉱業は，強制連行の一部（日本上陸後）を実行し，各事業場で強制労働を実施した。}
Google  translate : Mitsubishi Mining conducted a part of compulsory takeoff (after landing in Japan) and carried out forced labor at each workplace.
　　
However,  
{強制労働に関する条約は。
何らの立法措置も要せず，そのまま国内で執行することのできる条約であるとは解されない。したがって，同条約を根拠として，直ちに個人の損害賠償・謝罪請求権を認めることはできない。}
Google translation is bad so I translated it. Correct me , please. 
: There's no law in Japan that regulates forced labor and provide specific punishment, thus a punishment, with either money or apology given,  cannot be made.

Utente eliminato · Answer

@coco21125

I respect your pursuit of knowledge in this case but why do you care so much?

coco21125 · Answer

Sorry, I got way too angry when hearing people say Weianbu  wanted to do it themselves. 
Thus all the maniac reacts  😓.
   
From most of the interview reports about Weianbu that I saw in my country, they didn't even want to speak about the past (who would ?), thus no details of the working conditions. 
But they strongly stated that they wouldn't have gone there if they knew what was waiting.
It is very wrong to say they wanted it themselves.

Utente eliminato · Answer

@coco21125

Though I understand, you must understand that it didn't happen to you. You weren't even born yet, so it wasn't your battle.

Different people from a different time who you've never met and never will know have done it and it is long gone. Forever.

This new generation of Japanese are not responsible no more are there any REAL victims (they're gone and in the past) from your country AND current generation.

Accept it as history and nothing more. Look at the facts, know the facts, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

You have a right to feel the way you do, but that war banner has been burned. No need to erect a new one.

coco21125 · Answer

@LaughingJack 
Actually there is still 2 of them alive, although many had died due to age or other illnesses. 
     
No one wants to blame the present Japan or all of its citizens. But their government has the responsibility to educate its people properly,  so there won't be ridiculous statements made.
    
I just want to say that the law in Germany that bans people from defending for Nazi is a very wise law. Just imagine people saying that the Jews wanted to be in concentration camps and were receiving high wages and had a good time shopping with their salary.

Utente eliminato · Answer

@coco21125

I agree that countries SHOULD educate their people properly. However...

Countries are like people; I assure you every country has something to hide, won't admit, and is embarrassed of.

Like people, countries will address them by trying to cover it up, run around bothering everyone and apologizing, or pretending it never happened at all.

coco21125 · Answer

@LaughingJack 
They can give it a try.
But when it cannot be hidden,  the best way is that government do the difficult job.
In the event of Taiwanese students wearing Nazi uniforms that I mentioned in the beginning of this chat, our president was the first to apologize, and I think she did a very good job. 
Our education actually gives much information about Nazi,  and I believe no student in Taiwan doesn't know Hitler and Nazi was bad. They just didn't know it's that serious. So this is the weak point of our education that we put all the information into children's head, but not discussing it thoroughly. Our kids know how to fill in exam sheets,  but don't know how to respect other people's(Israeli's ) feelings,  although Nazi never set foot on this island, and avoid the use of symbols that may cause bad reflections.
Some of our citizens wanted the students to be punished harshly,  but it's not fair for them,  either, because they knew nothing. 
At that time our president stood out and apologized, and the anger was reduced a little,  thus we have more time to make appropriate solutions for the students' behavior. 
If the misbehavior cannot be kept secret anyway,  government has to make the hard decision and sometimes take blames.

Utente eliminato · Answer

@coco21125

Not at all. We are all individually accountable for our own conduct.

By apologizing, it's only encouraging the stigma to perpetuate and, in a sense, keeping the past alive.

Trust me. The government's responsibility is -NOT- to its people.

coco21125 · Answer

The past would always be alive if your country was not strong enough to rewrite history and make everyone shut up.
      
I don't know if Japan can make Korea shut up,  but Taiwan definitely can't make Israel shut up. 
They can keep trying,  though.  😉
Also the past is stuck with Germany but they are doing good.

Um... forgive me, but, to who is the government's responsibility if not to it's people ?

Utente eliminato · Answer

@coco21125

It's the people's responsibility to their government.

coco21125 · Answer

Well, I think it's vise versa. 
People elected the government so they have responsibility,  of course,  except for in some dictatorship. 
But the government has to protect the benefit of most of it's people, too.  If an individual committed a ridiculous crime,  the government can leave him to himself because the rest of the people are safe.
But if the misbehavior was the result of a flaw in the country's system (education for example ),  the government has to take responsibility,  or the other citizens will panic. They don't know what has the person done wrong, and if they could fall into the same position someday.

Utente eliminato · Answer

@coco21125

I do not disagree with you. However, morality and individual ethics should remain with the individual.

Long story short, a parent government raises children for its people.

coco21125 · Answer

@LaughingJack 
 I agree it is better if all citizens can have individual thinking from the beginning and still leads to correct , or at least not absurd, conclusions. 
However, the task may be too big and complicated,  so that after 70 years of government hiding behind (I'm grateful to Korean government because they didn't hide ),  and people making guesses of their own, here we are.
No Asian government is not parent government.
I would rather have civilized children than savage children.  😂😂😂

Utente eliminato · Answer

@coco21125

I would argue that Asian governments do act as parent governments, however it is not my land nor my place to say.

I do urge you to read Thomas Hobbes' "Leviathan".

It's been nice speaking with you civilly on this matter.

coco21125 · Answer

I will look it up , thank you.  😀

Utente eliminato · Answer

@coco21125 yeah, no problem.

I better head to bed. I liked talking to you. Maybe I'll see you around.

coco21125 · Answer

Yeah, it was a nice talk.  Goodnight. ☺

kennydoradora · Answer

hello

kennydoradora · Answer

hello

It would be rude to German but I'm so curious . I know Hakenkreuz is banned all over the world including Germany. But why German Military uses Iron Cross until now? I think it could give unpleasant to Poland or other Europe countries. Vedi una traduzione

Iron cross is much older than Nazi, I guess. It is not unforgivable to raise war because every country did that in the history, but Nazi is unforgivable. It's kind of like Mitsubishi is still doing business around even after what they did in Hashima... 😂

@coco21125 yeah, its totally stupid and I assume many of these students didn't even know what exactly Nazi Germany was and whose symbols they were carrying. Sad.

It's also banned here in Austria. As many people don't know, Hitler was austrian (not proud, but it's true)

You also can buy Hakenkreuz flag in S korea. I have it and it is not illigal thing.

And you also can study and believe about national socialism in S Korea.There is some web site of national socialism in korea. You also can said Sieg heil, heil hitler, Ich mag hitler führer, in S korea.It just banned in deutschland.

@HongAhan 밀리터리 샵 가보세요 하켄크로이츠 뿐만아니라 남부국기, 2제국기 등 여러개 팔고있어요

@naraons of course you can do that. but its still bullshit.

@coco21125 Not at all. We are all individually accountable for our own conduct.By apologizing, it's only encouraging the stigma to perpetuate and, in a sense, keeping the past alive.Trust me. The government's responsibility is -NOT- to its people.

@coco21125 It's the people's responsibility to their government.

@coco21125 I do not disagree with you. However, morality and individual ethics should remain with the individual.Long story short, a parent government raises children for its people.

@coco21125 I would argue that Asian governments do act as parent governments, however it is not my land nor my place to say.I do urge you to read Thomas Hobbes' "Leviathan".It's been nice speaking with you civilly on this matter.

I will look it up , thank you. 😀

@coco21125 yeah, no problem.I better head to bed. I liked talking to you. Maybe I'll see you around.

Yeah, it was a nice talk. Goodnight. ☺

Fai domande a utenti madrelingua gratis

It would be rude to German but I'm so curious . I know Hakenkreuz is banned all over the world including Germany. But why German Military uses Iron Cross until now? I think it could give unpleasant to Poland or other Europe countries.

Iron cross is much older than Nazi, I guess. It is not unforgivable to raise war because every country did that in the history, but Nazi is unforgivable.

It's kind of like Mitsubishi is still doing business around even after what they did in Hashima... 😂

You also can buy Hakenkreuz flag in S korea.
I have it and it is not illigal thing.

And you also can study and believe about national socialism in S Korea.
There is some web site of national socialism in korea.
You also can said Sieg heil, heil hitler, Ich mag hitler führer, in S korea.

It just banned in deutschland.

@coco21125

Not at all. We are all individually accountable for our own conduct.

By apologizing, it's only encouraging the stigma to perpetuate and, in a sense, keeping the past alive.

Trust me. The government's responsibility is -NOT- to its people.

@coco21125

It's the people's responsibility to their government.

@coco21125

I do not disagree with you. However, morality and individual ethics should remain with the individual.

Long story short, a parent government raises children for its people.

@coco21125

I would argue that Asian governments do act as parent governments, however it is not my land nor my place to say.

I do urge you to read Thomas Hobbes' "Leviathan".

It's been nice speaking with you civilly on this matter.

@coco21125 yeah, no problem.

I better head to bed. I liked talking to you. Maybe I'll see you around.